Posted in The Multiracial Activist Forum and Chat:
What do you think about ending all racial classification?
8/20/99 6:26 PM
Covering news of interest to multiracial individuals and interracial couples since 1997.
That would be great. Best way to start ending racial classification is abolishing of Affirmative Action.
8/21/99 8:59 AM
Affirmative Action based on race yes. That should go. But based on class or economics should replace it.
2/25/00 6:01 PM
I’m with you – socio-economic gaps (income inequality, relative deprevation) cause as much or more social ills than we are led to believe by mainstream sources.
2/28/00 9:31 AM
Oh, I totally agree with you. Affirmative action based on economic need. Good answer. (smile)
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11/30/01 8:53 AM
If we’re going to abolish Affermative Action, then we must give everyone the same education. If children from the ghettos and inner cities are given an education that doesn’t equip them to pass the college entrance exams, then we need Affirmative Action.
I have a friend who is Black and Hawaiian; she went to school in a ghetto/barrio area of Los Angeles. She didn’t even know how Abraham Lincoln died. How’s a person with an education like that supposed to give the “correct” anwers on an SAT test?
12/17/01 7:24 PM
If we didn’t have any racial classification we would lose a lot of self being. For many people their race is a way for them to claim individuality.
9/2/99 12:28 PM
>For many people their race is a way for them to claim individuality.
To claim individuality by claiming membership in a large organization is an oxymoron (sp?).
What it gives them is the ability to simplify choices on values and associations. Rather than making honest, mindful choices they just become one of the group.
2/25/00 6:03 PM
Even without racial classifications, we would still be able to claim our individaul heritage, culture, customs, traditions, our ancestral homelands, and our history.
Then, the common roots that bind us would far outweigh the physical and social differences that make us unique.
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Edited 12/29/01 8:02:02 AM ET by SAUNDRA2000
11/30/01 9:08 AM
My concern is that the primary use of race data today has only one objective; that is, to identify and perpetuate a permanent underclass defined by skin tone.
If the political left could not be “fighting” for their many self- defined underclasses, what is left for them?
The real issue, however, is beautifully described in Lisa Nelson’s article (https://www.multiracial.com/abolitionist/word/nelson.html) where the accuracy of race data is inherently questionable in the first place.
8/14/03 1:33 PM
I think that is the best thing that they can do. I is so unimportant. It will end this bickering on who’s racial classifications are right. So many people are mixed these days. It is like keeping up with the Jones. Once you catch up, there is a Remix of another kind.
12/14/99 7:08 PM
It would be the best thing they could possibly do. When they sent me that census, I only put my husband’s name and mine on it. No way was I going to fill out that racial category thing. It’s ridiculous, what does that have to do with how many people are in this country. And for the person who said that some people only have their race to be individuals. That’s ridiculous, if the only way you identify yourself is by your racial make-up, you’re missing out on a lot in life. That ought to be terrible to be in that one box and not be able to be yourself minus the racial make-up.
8/21/00 6:58 PM
If we didn’t have official classification, peopel would still find a way to mistreat each other.
Coquinegra— Mejor estar soltera que mal acompañada.
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11/29/01 8:10 AM
Yes, they would, but instead of becoming enablers and helping breed more “racists” by indoctrinating more children in the cult of “race”, let’s remove one of the educational tools of use by both hate groups and traditional civil rights groups in their joint efforts to keep people boxed in and under their influence.
If we stop indoctrinating people in the use of “race” to divide folks, we in turn create fewer “racists”. Why are people so scared of living without “race”? Yes, SOME people would still find other ways to hurt each other, but this isn’t about all forms of hurt, it is about “race” and the belief in same that leads to “racism.” The categories are going to fall, and soon, even Hugh Price of the National Urban League has acknowledged that fact.
11/29/01 10:37 AM
I don’t believe for one minute that by ‘eliminating race’, we will eliminate ‘racists’. That is a fantasy world. In Latin America, many more of the people are multi-racial and they still hate “blackness”. And I, for one, am not ‘sorry’ to be who I am. I am angry that my skin makes other people make decisions about me.
Coquinegra— Mejor estar soltera que mal acompañada. http://www.delphiforums.com/TheRainbowTribe/start
11/29/01 11:16 AM
I’m not sure what being “sorry” about anthing has to do with anything I wrote.
Children are indoctrinated into the cult of “race” from early in school by being prompted to enter their “race” on different test documents, application forms, etc. The process is further embraced by their parents who preach “race” to their kids with “black” people this and “white” people that, and so on and so on.
These nasty little classifications have been contributing to America’s “racial” problems from it’s founding. It is far past time for Americans to shed our 18th century thinking and beliefs, abandon the insidious concept of biological “races” and deconstruct the arbitrary “racial” walls dividing one person from another. Latin Americas problems are far more complex and related as much to poverty and corrupt governments and are not valid for comparison to the U.S. The histories, economies and categorization methods are different. Might as well compare apples to oranges.
Continually dividing our fellow Americans by “race” reinforces the concept that one group of Americans are so different from another group of Americans that they must be viewed differently and as a nasty consequence of this type of thinking, treated differently. These “racial” classifications do not end or lessen “racism.” These classifications do, however, reinforce the concept of “race”, which in turn fosters the twin demons of superiority and inferiority. This is government-coerced segregation of the body, mind and spirit. It violates the most basic fundamental principles of privacy and fairness. It is just plain wrong and if we are to survive as a free nation, we can no longer allow it.
To preach the philosophy of “racialism” while bemoaning “racism” is not only living in “fantasy world”, as you put it, it is contributing to the problem. If you truly, honestly want to end “racism” then start by helping stop the promotion of “race”-based thinking. In order to be a “racist” you must first believe in the biological myth of “race”.
Edited 11/29/2001 11:45:24 AM ET by JLANDRITHJR
11/29/01 11:36 AM
I do not believe in racialism….but there is a reason why two chinese do not produce a Lapplander. ‘race’ exists….it just doesn’t matter.
race is not species; race is just race.
Coquinegra— Mejor estar soltera que mal acompañada. http://www.delphiforums.com/TheRainbowTribe/start
11/29/01 11:40 AM
“Race” does not exist, as we are all descendents of African Homo Sapiens. What others, including some microbiologists, call “race” is simple environmental adaptation over a short span of human history.
Belief in separate biological “races” that somehow magically share the same African ancestry is “racialism” in its purest form. Either we all descended from the same common ancestors, making us the same “race” or we didn’t. We can’t have it both ways. I defer to the logic and life works of Drs. Montagu and Brace on this issue.
11/29/01 11:54 AM
No that’s assuming race means species….which it doesn’t.
Race is another way of saying disparate population or sub-species.
The true definition of a species is that they cannot mate and produce fertile offspring. So, people from different races are clearly not different species.
I am saying that I don’t want to give up my wonderful brown skin.
I like it. just as i like the warm skin of a Polynesian or the perfect hair of a Korean or the hazel eyes and freckles of a European.
I don’t mind “race”; I mind the importance attached to it.
Coquinegra— Mejor estar soltera que mal acompañada. http://www.delphiforums.com/TheRainbowTribe/start
11/29/01 12:09 PM
Your skin is your physical body and an accident of birth, why would shedding the concept of “race” make that disappear? I put my pride in my actions and beliefs, things I can control, not in physical attributes that aren’t of my own control.
Further, “race” doesn’t exist, except in the agendas and minds of those who desperately need it to exist. Love of so-called skin color is a classic “racialist” trait. Why call geographical adaption “race” if not for the purpose of separation and promoting “racialism”? Who gets to decide where the family tree stops and who bestows that power on them? Species does indeed exist, “race”, a completely arbitrary and unscientific method of classification, however does not. If we are going to base “race” on minute physical traits that differ from person to person, then we have 270 million separate “races” in the U.S. alone.
Edited 11/29/2001 12:30:11 PM ET by JLANDRITHJR
11/29/01 12:21 PM
I get the impression that the debate over *race* will never end. And because of that, our nation will forever be divided.
Such a waste, don’t you think?
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11/30/01 1:40 PM
I agree with everything you’re saying about the concept of “race”. Like you, I believe in very simple logic and agree with what our anthropologists and other experts have proven time again. That “race” is a social concept and has ZERO biological bearing as a classificaiton system. None. Zero. Zip.
The real problem lies in how do we reverse the centuries of giving validity to “racial classification”? Just look at at everyone despite unsurmountable proof thet “race” is a misnomer and all statements that support it are fallacies, everyone keeps thinking it’s important.
Kind of can relate to how Columbus felt when he told the people that the earth was round. lol
1/6/10 2:33 PM
I totallly agree with you. Doing away with racial classification will not end racism. Along as there are differences in appearence, people are going to disciminate. There is already so much racial profiling and steroetypes of certain ethnic groups. There is so much emphysis on what a different ethnic group looks like. To sum it all up, people are going to perceive you a certain way whether you state your race or not.
6/18/04 4:34 PM
To sum it all up, people are going to perceive you a certain way whether you state your race or not.
Precisely. I suspect I am just as “multiracial” as anyone else here, but I’m culturally African american. Happy with it, GLAD TO CHECK THE BOX. It doesn’t mean I deny the other “races” that made me, but culturally, I am who I am.
Coquinegra— Mejor estar soltera que mal acompañada. …Now, would the congregation please open their hymn books and join me in singing that ol’ spiritual AYER LLORE, Y HOY, ME RIO!…
Multiculturalism is already here.
Come experience it!
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6/19/04 7:46 PM
CoquiNegra,
i completely agree with your policy. I am of west indian and spanish decent but I always check african american. There is nothing shameful about being a so called “black person” in america. I have had nothing but White collegues throughout my years in the South and I feel very proud to be able to cross those race barriers. I am the only black guy in my fraternity at school so I understand the struggle to gain racial understanding. I feel like I have changed the game so to speak in my society and look forward to bridging more gaps
7/28/04 6:28 AM
you are right!
Multiculturalism is already here.
Come experience it!
Since we never got the 40 acres and a mule, we’re gonna ride this donkey as far as it will take us! TM Rev. Al Sharpton, 7/28/2004
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7/29/04 1:49 PM
Redbone217 said: “Doing away with racial classification will not end racism.”
By the same token, checking “racial” boxes certainly helps it continue through the implied government endorsement of static, arbitrarily drawn falsely biological “races.” The boxes were created to promote “racism” via “race”-based slavery and segregation. Their very origins lie in enslavement and disenfranchisement. Personally, I’m not going to endorse such a system.
Redbone217 said: “Along as there are differences in appearence, people are going to disciminate.”
Really? People used to think the world was flat as well. People used to think that segregation would last forever and that “interracial” marriages would always be illegal. People change, laws change and outlooks change, not always as fast as we like but they do change. “Racist” beliefs are not genetic, they are learned. They can also be unlearned and not taught. The very fact that I can live in peace with my wife in the very state where Mildred Loving took her fight to the Supreme Court is living, daily evidence of progress. Not victory, but progress.
Redbone217 said: “To sum it all up, people are going to perceive you a certain way whether you state your race or not.”
People are going to perceive you a certain way? Or is it that SOME people are going to perceive you a certain way? And why exactly does this justify the use of government force to demand a person fork over their “racial” identity anytime a bureaucrat dictates it so? So what if someone else has decided what you are? That is their opinion. They can’t control your self-identity unless you allow them to do so. A person who is secure in their mental state and in control of their own emotional well-being doesn’t need the validation of a government enforced “racial” identification scheme. That person know who he/she is without requiring their government to force their neighbors to “racially” identify.
And by stating your “race” and playing along with the nasty little game of those who will “perceive you a certain way,” how exactly are we countering this 17th century attitude? Further, why should people be forced by their government to divulge their “race” in order to placate those who desire to classify? What does such an overtly fascist tactic say about those who favor it? Where does government derive the right to demand “racial” identification? What should the penalty be for those who refuse to “racially” identify? There are also people who believe that “interracial” families should not exist. If we are going to use the prior example as an excuse for government force to collect “racial” identification, then why not placate those who oppose “interracial” marriage in a similiar manner? Why not placate those who oppose integration in the same way? Why not just bring back Jim Crow? I mean, if its all about acquiesing to the demands of the lowest of the low.
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Edited 6/20/2004 2:38 am ET by jlandrith (JLANDRITHJR)
6/20/04 2:06 AM
While I feel that there should be no boxes to check or be checked. I think that Redbone’s point is that if (for example) you look like a Black person, people who discriminate against Black people are going to discriminate against you regardless of how you classify yourself. I don’t believe that if people stop defining themselves that racism will disappear. I find that other people still define you and make both conscious and unconscious judgments about you based on what you look like.
6/20/04 10:28 AM
Resa,
Thank you. We are on the same page. My point exactly.
6/20/04 4:18 PM
I was’nt saying that checking racial boxes was any better. I agree with you when you stated: “The boxes were created to promote “racism” via “race-based slavery and segregation.” It is the same thing only in a new form of segregation.
You stated: “”Racist beleifs are not genetic, they are learned. They can also be unlearned and not taught.”” Yes, but not in our lifetime and many more to come. Also the comment you said about how people will perceive me. Some people already have perceived me a certain way by thinking that I was something I am not, but I correct them. I am not going to let someone judge me just because it is socially acceptable.
Also,I didn’t say that there was justification in using the check box. I was simply saying that even without the check box, unfortunately, people are going to judge you based on skin color and appearences. I don’t need validation and usually do not check any boxes when I feel out an application. I feel that it is none of their buisness and is irrelavent to my job performance.
Finally, yes we have come a long way and made progress. However, in my opinion, I feel that racism and classification will never die out until mankind dies out. Even if eventually everybody becomes one race, there is always going to be prejiduce no matter what. Thanks for your input.
6/20/04 10:51 AM
Be very careful before you advocate abandoning racial classifications. “Race” does not have to be negative it can also be very positive for alot of people. Where is this “idea” going to end? Maybe we should all paint outselves white so that the racists dont have colours to complain about? Why are we pandering to the racist agenda? People who cannot accept that different people from different walks of life live in their communities need to change NOT us.
In England where I am from, we (blacks) are growing up in a predominately white country and have far less positive and affirming images of our selves as you have in America. “Race” has postive cultural meanings for us and should do so for people in America too. Where I am from, you can be black and proud, white and proud and mixed race and proud. Peronally, I am black and proud and do not see this as negative.
I think that people who cannot see beyond their own skin and their culture are quite frankly boring. I love growing up in a city where white, black, asian and all spectrums of the rainbow are growing up. West Indian, African, Indian, Chinese and various European cultures mingle on the streets on London. People need to learn to accept that people can be different but are still equal. The idea that wiping out the existence of race altogether is the answer, is defeatest and offensive to people who love their race and culture.
Even if you do not feel anything positive about your race and/or culture then you do not have the right to remove the postive influences of self pride that other people have. My parents taught me about very positive people from our history and instilled a sence of pride in me. I will do the same for my children.
An analogy: I am black and not chinese. Do I have a right to decide that their racial classification is irrelevant and should be abandoned? How offensive is that! It may be irrelevant to me because I don’t live their lives and feel what they feel about their race. The difference between me and you is that there is no way that I would throw MY ideas onto them and decide that they should abandon the idea of their race and culture. I welcome the idea that everyone has a right to choose their own identity/culture. If other people don’t like their cultural habits then they should simply not live their life that way. If we were all the same it would be plain boring and America would stand to lose alot from the various races and cultures that have contributed to the country.
In short, think about how much of what you are saying is down to self interest and your own experience and allow other people to have their experiences too. Personally, whether it effects me or not I would defend to the death the right for people to love their race and practice their unique and beautiful customs with pride. And personally, the more customs and races and languages and racial groups the merrier. Just come to cosomopolitan London for a month and then go back and suggest a dull and lifeless country where no one thinks about race and culture. BORING!!
Edited 12/26/01 9:06:53 AM ET by CLEOPATRA43
12/26/01 8:41 AM
Sounds good to me….let’s all just be “people.”
12/17/01 7:19 PM
-That would be a good “first step” that this country could take to put an end to racism. This country is still hooked on race-labeling others and themselves, and everything is still so “black and white” in perception to so many people in this country. People need to stop looking for the “brownness” of others in order to label others and themselves as being “black”. That’s a racist trait in itself.
-“The Sick Puppy”, MULATTAARANA
12/28/01 1:36 PM
Hello all,
I am Black, While, Cherokee, Taino (Caribbean Indian), Hispanic and my wife is White, Hispanic and European (Spanish) and that’s just the Racial Specs. Religions in our families and ancestors include, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Moslem, Spiritualist. And politics is a wide range as well. Now…define my 3 kids.
Imagine the torment when we are faced with the Race question on a questionaire and it says “Choose only 1”. So, do I ignore my fathers roots? White and Cherokee? My Mom’s Hispanic, Indian, White and Black? Or my wife’s family?
I choose simply to call my self an American and mark the “Other” box. Obviously, I would prefer there be no classifications. Let me define myself by my actions, not my skin color or the color of my ancestors.
5/14/03 7:44 PM
Awesome post!
My son is Black, White (French, Scots, Dutch, English, Irish, and German) Asian (Korean) and Blackfoot Native Amer.
I agree, no one should have to be identified by a race – especially when they are multi-racial.
6/6/03 2:29 PM
Racial classifications, since their inception, have been a lot about the politics of exclusion, and not about any meaningful biological fact. Geneticists tell us that race categories, as such, are essentially meaningless. Skin color evolves rapidly in a mobile population to accomodate climate changes. Race categories such as hispanic are more about culture–those who can rightly be called hispanic can be black, brown, white, red, or yellow of skn tone, but hispanic makes sense as a cultural designation. Cultures are the rich tapestry of human diversity–what makes us unique. Race is incidental to culture. Why can’t race just be about physical descriptors and not carry all the cultural baggage? Why do people ascribe a value to skin color when each color is merely adaptation to climate? We are, after all, one race called human!
7/20/03 6:07 PM
To start with, ending all racial classifications sounds great in theory, but it would have so many harsh side effects that most of us would end up regretting ever trying to get rid of ‘race.’ It sounds like most people believe that if we exclude race, we can exclude racism. Lets say we decided to exclude heterosexual vs. homosexual classifications. Are there still going to be hate crimes directed at homosexuals? OF COURSE. Race is important. First of all, race, while not concrete, is a useful descriptive. Have you ever tried to describe someone of another race without using their race? Isn’t it easier to just say “you know, the black guy….the white girl….etc.” I know this may sound lame to many, but we all do it. The most important reason to not abolish ‘race’ as a classification is the use of race against discrimination. If you are a black man at work, and you are being discriminated against becasue of your race, but there were no racial classifications, what could you do? Where is your protection? How do you tell people that you are being treated unfairly because you are ‘different’ when you are sitting here proclaiming we are all exactly the same? Sure, we are all one race – human, but our racial differences are important, and useful at times. People will still feel a certain way about others regardless of what we call them. By abolishing racial categories, we cannot abolish racism.
10/8/03 6:51 AM
it sounds like a great idea to me :)
10/9/03 7:49 AM
Ending racial classification would only bring about more discrimination in education and employment.
11/20/03 1:21 PM
Hetep and Respect Good Spirit
There is one “race” the human race and many ethnic groups. The three major ethnic groups are African, Asian and Caucasian. There is a fourth derived ethnic group multiEthnic. There are an endless number of these groups made from the three majors.
Hetep,
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8/24/04 5:58 PM
Hetep Aunk!!!!
I also prefer ethnicity to “race”. Race is way too subjective. I think that you can get all of the information you want about people by asking what Nationality and Ethnicity they are. Is not a “White” or Asian person born in Africa an African by Nationality?
8/25/04 10:34 PM
Hetep and Respect Wild Eyed
Yes African Nationality and ethnicity European or Asian is a logical way to reference folks
Hetep,
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8/30/04 2:16 AM
There is no such thing as racial classifications. We are all from the same race. In our ancient history people were recognized by clan or regions. We know Americans still don’t encompass all people equally so what’s going to change it ultimately, space invasion. Then we will all have to pull together no matter what. I like that idea. Too bad we are so dumb we don’t understand that we are all the same once we take that first layer of dermis off.
7/26/05 11:06 PM
that could help identify our ancestry, that cannot be forgotten.
5/21/07 7:41 AM
Yes I think it should be ended because we are all human not half beast or part robots but human. Humans all have degrees of mixture within ourselves not classes of animals, no one is part horsey or cat/dogs we are all the same. To me classifications is just a way of dividing the races and keeping up racial discord.
1/30/08 1:25 PM